microbe.3/gps.art
http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gps
[global positioning system art]
by intima virtual base [2000]
beta version 0.9

- - -

GPS - Global Positioning System
USA - Department of Defense: DOD
LORAN (LOng RAnge Navigation)
Transit | Timation | Decca
Colorado Springs
Standard Positioning Service (SPS)
Precise Positioning Service (PPS)
c = 300.000 km/s
(drift)
(3 ns)
X, Y, Z +4
WGS-84
(dithering)
10,23 MHz
L1 & L2 signal
ground-plane
choke-ring
C/A (Coarse/Acquisition)
P
(Time of Arrival, TOA)
(delta t)
Ambiguity Resolution
RTCM SC-104
DOP (Dilution of Precision) - VDOP, HDOP, PDOP
GDOP (Geodetic DOP)
S/A (Selective Availability)
A-S (Anti Spoofing)
GPS-System 500
SR510
SR520
SR530
TR500
GS50 (GIS)
Mode "1.5 APA": APA, BWC, GLL, & VTG Mode "1.5 XTE": BWC,
GLL, VTG, & XTE and Mode "2.1 GSA": APB, GGA*, GLL, GSA*, GSV, RMB, & RMC*
AllGPSUpdate.exe
1 = Data in (pin 3 on DB-9) yellow wire.
2 = Regulated 3.86vdc, red wire.
3 = Ground (pin 5 on DB-9) and ground on cigarette-lighter plug, black wire.
4 = Data out (pin 2 on DB-9) orange wire.
WS=sqrt( (TAS-GS)^2+ 4*TAS*GS*(sin((HD-CRS)/2))^2 )
WD=CRS + atan2(TAS*sin(HD-CRS), TAS*cos(HD-CRS)-GS) (**)
IF (WD<0) THEN WD=WD+2*pi
IF (WD>2*pi) THEN WD=WD-2*pi
( (**) assumes atan2(y,x), reverse arguments if your implementation
has atan2(x,y) )
(2) Find HD, GS
SWC=(WS/TAS)*sin(WD-CRS)
IF (abs(SWC)>1)
"course cannot be flown-- wind too strong"
ELSE
HD=CRS+asin(SWC)
if (HD<0) HD=HD+2*pi
if (HD>2*pi) HD=HD-2*pi
GS=TAS*sqrt(1-SWC^2)-WS*cos(WD-CRS)
ENDIF

- - -

microbe.2/gsm.art
http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gsmart
[global system for mobile telecommunication art]
by intima virtual base [1999]
version 1.0





Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 23:22:07 +0300
From: olia lialina - olialia@teleportacia.org
Organization: TELEPORTACIA
To: atom@intima.org
Subject: :)

hi igor

http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gps
is a very interesting project to my Location=Yes collection

i will include it these days.

do you have your own comments concerning the subject
i will include them.

and how are you?

best
olia

Location=yes is here

http://art.teleportacia.org





Date sent: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 10:59:56 +0000
From: Terrence J Kosick
Send reply to: kosick@sprint.ca
To: John Klima
Copies to: atom@intima.org, list@rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: gps.art

Terrence writes;

I saw nothing as well. A couple of years ago I thought it would be cool to
do a gps project. called The Virtualize Earth Project . V.E.P. QTVR with
GPS. Mapping out from various pints on the earth. (I have this 'gee a new
idea' thing) I even went out and got some equipment and started to do some
here. It was fun at first but little too ambitious when i though obout it.
Besides its not what I'm into an theres no money in it. Like get a map and
go and experience the real thing, right?


anyhow;

I liked it when people looked like gosts in the qtvr. Its great if you could
work it into a party but you need a patient group. I figued the best formula
is to wait till every one is too stoned to move. But by then whats the point
of a GPS?! Like e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e KNOWS where they are AT when they are
stoned.

It was interesting to know that GPS is inacurate by 1000 yards. This
inacuracy is intentionally built in at by the demand of the military. I
think it has something to do with targeting sensitive installations.

T.
some kind of artnatural ramble.



John Klima wrote:

> Okay, I like the idea, but I don't see what it does. Where's the piece?
>
> J
>
> intima wrote:
>
> > microbe.3/gps.art
> > http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gps
> > [global positioning system art]
> > by intima virtual base [2000]
> > beta version 0.9
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > GPS - Global Positioning System
> > USA - Department of Defense: DOD
> > LORAN (LOng RAnge Navigation)
> > Transit | Timation | Decca
> > Colorado Springs
> > Standard Positioning Service (SPS)
> > Precise Positioning Service (PPS)
> > c = 300.000 km/s
> > (drift)
> > (3 ns)
> > X, Y, Z +4
> > WGS-84
> > (dithering)
> > 10,23 MHz
> > L1 & L2 signal
> > ground-plane
> > choke-ring
> > C/A (Coarse/Acquisition)
> > P
> > (Time of Arrival, TOA)
> > (delta t)
> > Ambiguity Resolution
> > RTCM SC-104
> > DOP (Dilution of Precision) - VDOP, HDOP, PDOP
> > GDOP (Geodetic DOP)
> > S/A (Selective Availability)
> > A-S (Anti Spoofing)
> > GPS-System 500
> > SR510
> > SR520
> > SR530
> > TR500
> > GS50 (GIS)
> > Mode "1.5 APA": APA, BWC, GLL, & VTG Mode "1.5 XTE": BWC,
> > GLL, VTG, & XTE and Mode "2.1 GSA": APB, GGA*, GLL, GSA*, GSV,
> > RMB, & RMC*
> > AllGPSUpdate.exe
> > 1 = Data in (pin 3 on DB-9) yellow wire.
> > 2 = Regulated 3.86vdc, red wire.
> > 3 = Ground (pin 5 on DB-9) and ground on cigarette-lighter plug, black
> > wire.
> > 4 = Data out (pin 2 on DB-9) orange wire.
> > WS=sqrt( (TAS-GS)^2+ 4*TAS*GS*(sin((HD-CRS)/2))^2 )
> > WD=CRS + atan2(TAS*sin(HD-CRS), TAS*cos(HD-CRS)-GS) (**)
> > IF (WD<0) THEN WD=WD+2*pi
> > IF (WD>2*pi) THEN WD=WD-2*pi
> > ( (**) assumes atan2(y,x), reverse arguments if your implementation
> > has atan2(x,y) )
> > (2) Find HD, GS
> > SWC=(WS/TAS)*sin(WD-CRS)
> > IF (abs(SWC)>1)
> > "course cannot be flown-- wind too strong"
> > ELSE
> > HD=CRS+asin(SWC)
> > if (HD<0) HD=HD+2*pi
> > if (HD>2*pi) HD=HD-2*pi
> > GS=TAS*sqrt(1-SWC^2)-WS*cos(WD-CRS)
> > ENDIF
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > microbe.2/gsm.art
> > http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gsmart
> > [global system for mobile telecommunication art]
> > by intima virtual base [1999]
> > version 1.0





To: John Klima
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: gps.art
Send reply to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Date sent: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 16:57:13 +0100

hi john,

> Okay, I like the idea,

very nice of you.

> but I don't see what it does.

does it have to "do" anything? if we want to "do" something - we just do it;
we don't make a net art project in such case.

> Where's the piece?

the entering point is located at
http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gps
from there on you just have to follow the navigation. did you have any
problems?

this is beta version (below 1.0; it's 0.9). now we'll connect gps like we did
in "gsm.art" project
(and you can already "do" something in gps.art).

wishing all the best,
igor





Date sent: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 15:41:27 -0500
From: John Klima
To: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Subject: Re: gps.art


Well now that you tell me that if 3 = 2/1/0 means what you say it does, then i
suppose i would have given it a try. Why be so cryptic? what does this
enigmatic approach add to the piece? What it does do, is make me think "oh
here's another damn web site that someone didn't test properly". I suppose
It's unfair for me to come down on it so hard, and I like that you are thinking
in this way, but don't be surprised if some folks say "to hell with this." I
think if you want to be enigmatic, keep the puzzle real simple at first, and
progressively make it more difficult. In this technological climate there is
not a lot of room for frustration. In the digital media, I think it imperative
that the artist consider the viewer very carfully. This is a novel approach to
making art. Certainly in the past Artists were encouraged to disregard the
viewer and think only of their vision. I think considering the viewer an
esential component of the new medium, and part of what makes it truely
different.

My machine is PII 300mhz, 128 meg ram, win95, netscape 4.6 128bit encrypt, 28.8
connection

My machine is a development machine, meaning it is chock full of wacky software
of all varieties, and can be a little flakey sometimes, which is why I usually
reboot and try again before I say there is tech problem, which is what I did
in this case as well.

J


intima wrote:

> hi john,
>
> you really don't want to read the instructions and think about them, isn't
> that true? :)
>
> doesn't is say (in "move.html"):
> [if 3 = 2/1/0 : enter | return keyboard ||| reload frame]
> which means:
> if you see only 1 or 2 cubes instead of 3, you have to:
>
> option a)
> put the coursor in the location bar and press enter on the keyboard
>
> option b)
> reload frame with the applet where the big white box appears.
>
> it's that easy.
>
> > BTW on win95/netscape 4.6 the java applets do not refresh until you
> > leave the page, just big white boxes, and there is a null pointer error
> > on move.html that locks netscape, had to reboot to free netscape from
> > this state.
>
> the project (which is still the work in progress) works perfectly on:
> - win98/netscape 4.6
> - pentium 300 mhz
> - 64 mb ram
> - 28.8 kbs modem
>
> if nestcape locks - there is something wrong with your computer, or more
> likely there is nothing wrong, but your computer or connection is too slow.
> would you please tell me what kind of computer is it (that would help me a
> lot).
>
> many thanks in advance and best wishes,
> igor





To: John Klima
Subject: Re: gps.art
Send reply to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:34:13 +0100

john,

> Why be so cryptic? what does this
> enigmatic approach add to the piece? What it does do, is make me think "oh
> here's another damn web site that someone didn't test properly".

i agree that this is a right question. in general i didn't want to be very
cryptic and enigmatic - i just want to show/test/explore other ways of www
navigations. and i'm going to develop it further. for now you can see the
new entering page of the project (with "help" button).

> but don't be surprised if some folks say "to hell with this."

and i agree with you again. i'm sad, but i'll keep on fighting. i've got so
many e-mails today reporting like "there nothing to click!" and that's why i
added "help".

> In the digital media, I think it imperative
> that the artist consider the viewer very carfully. This is a novel approach to
> making art. Certainly in the past Artists were encouraged to disregard the
> viewer and think only of their vision. I think considering the viewer an
> esential component of the new medium, and part of what makes it truely
> different.

here i'll quote pablo picasso: "art is never chaste, one should keep all
innocent buffoons steered well away. people who are not prepared well
enough for art should never be allowed near it. yes, art is dangerous. if
it's chaste, it's not art."

> My machine is PII 300mhz, 128 meg ram, win95, netscape 4.6 128bit encrypt, 28.8
> connection

it should work, of course. the project (still the work in progress - because i
didn't include the connection to the gps machine) was tested on i-mac,
g4, pc (win98) - both netscape and ms ie. "reload frame" command works
as well.


thanks again for all the information and for being so nice to talk with me,
igor





Date sent: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:11:24 -0500
From: John Klima
To: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Subject: Re: gps.art



> > Why be so cryptic? what does this
> > enigmatic approach add to the piece? What it does do, is make me think "oh
> > here's another damn web site that someone didn't test properly".
>
> i agree that this is a right question. in general i didn't want to be very
> cryptic and enigmatic - i just want to show/test/explore other ways of www
> navigations. and i'm going to develop it further. for now you can see the
> new entering page of the project (with "help" button).

I'm glad you see the validity, though your picasso quote, a favorite of mine as well,
might suggest otherwise.


>
> > but don't be surprised if some folks say "to hell with this."
>
> and i agree with you again. i'm sad, but i'll keep on fighting. i've got so
> many e-mails today reporting like "there nothing to click!" and that's why i
> added "help".

uggh, sorry to add to the onslaught. At least its good to know that folks actually
go and see and care to enough to figure it out, which certainly counters my flipant
remark "do you think any cares enough to bother"

> > In the digital media, I think it imperative
> > that the artist consider the viewer very carfully. This is a novel approach to
> > making art. Certainly in the past Artists were encouraged to disregard the
> > viewer and think only of their vision. I think considering the viewer an
> > esential component of the new medium, and part of what makes it truely
> > different.
>
> here i'll quote pablo picasso: "art is never chaste, one should keep all
> innocent buffoons steered well away. people who are not prepared well
> enough for art should never be allowed near it. yes, art is dangerous. if
> it's chaste, it's not art."
>

Well, I'd like to differ with pablo in terms of the digital. I'd like to steer
innocent buffons right into it actually. I'd like them to not even realize that what
they are looking at is art, which is why I make art and call it computer games. It
also conveniently frees me from thinking I have to do something "important."

> > My machine is PII 300mhz, 128 meg ram, win95, netscape 4.6 128bit encrypt, 28.8
> > connection
>
> it should work, of course. the project (still the work in progress - because i
> didn't include the connection to the gps machine) was tested on i-mac,
> g4, pc (win98) - both netscape and ms ie. "reload frame" command works
> as well.

Well, like I said my machine can be pretty flakey, but usually when I have a problem,
there is a problem. My isp can be pretty flakey too. maybe I'll try again later.

I totally dig the idea of incorporating realworld data in pieces. I particularly
like interfacing odd hardware like a gps, or a weather station (something I'm working
on). I like that you are playing with the expectations of interface. What ever you
do though, it's gotta make sense to the piece. Enigmatic navigation seems like a
piece of its own, and gps is a piece of its own, you know?

J





John Klima wrote:
>
> Conor McGarrigle wrote:
>
> > Yes, unless they're really thick
>
> Well I guess I'm really thick then. Kinda odd, most folks think I'm pretty clever.
>
>
> > Yes Intima projects are always interesting
>
> I too initially thought that this might be interesting. Someone doing something with real data. The original email had some code in it, and some math, and I love that. To then be presented with a "guess what you need to do next" interface, an insulting help link (eventually added) and a half dozen bullshit url's before I got to an url that had anything at all to do with gps, was a bit disappointing, and seemingly pointless.
>
> J





Date sent: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:07:19 +0100
From: Jaka Zeleznikar
Organization: http://193.2.52.206/~jaka
To: Igor Stromajer
Subject: [Fwd: RHIZOME_RAW: gps.art / breaking navigation rules]



Martin Wattenberg wrote:
>
> A web page with responsive and easy navigation feels luxurious. It's the net
> equivalent of gold or ebony.
>
> A web page whose navigation makes you work--e.g. editing text URLs--feels
> painful. It's the net equivalent of concrete or barbed wire.
>
> Some sculptures should be made of fine wood, others work better with more
> brutal materials. The question about the gps.art site is, Why did the artist
> choose concrete rather than ebony for this particular sculpture?
>
> At 12:58 PM 2/8/00 -0000, Conor McGarrigle wrote:
> >
> >I have a project called PLAY-lets which has been online for nearly a year.
> >This project has a frustrating navigation where you never know where you are
> >going and which often brings you in circles.
> [snip]
> >However, a year later PLAY-lets is still incredibly popular.
>
> I don't think the PLAY-lets navigation is at all frustrating. I always got a
> fast response when I clicked and it was always clear where I could click...
> so it felt luxurious. This site is a good example of how "playful,
> nondirected and surprising" can coexist with "pleasing to navigate."
>
> --Martin





Date sent: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:59:14 +0000
From: Terrence J Kosick
Send reply to: kosick@sprint.ca
To: John Klima
Copies to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si, list@rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: gps.art (referential reply)

Terrence writes;

....'one time, when intima was at computer camp'....

terrence kosick
artnatural will grow on you.

John Klima wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> intima wrote:
>
> >
> > > an insulting help link (eventually added)
> >
> > yes, you are right. the "help" link was added yesterday. why did you have
> > to use it? - (it looks like you know the content of "help" pages). could you
> > please suggest me more polite way of saying it? i'll be happy to change
> > the text and i could really use your help. seriously.
> >
>
> I believe the help link asked me something to the effect "do I admit that I am
> clueless" or soemthing like that, and then I had to click "yes I admit it" or "no I
> don't admit it" A bit insulting don't you think? Perhaps "Are you sure you want to
> give up that easily" would have challanged me to find the solution.
>
> > > and a half dozen bullshit url's before I got to an url that had
> > > anything at all to do with gps,
> >
> > i'm very happy that you had to fight with the project to get to the final url (i
> > often cry - why shouldn't you?). but i'm very sad that you see those url's
> > as bullshit. maybe it's because you are a soldier and you don't like to
> > communicate, to talk very much? or is it the opposite - you don't like to
> > talk with machines?
>
> I just wanted to see a piece that used gps data, the preliminary conversation seemed
> completely irrelevent to the piece. I'm not interested in gps as a technology, I'm
> interested in seeing data generated from technology being used, reused, misused, and
> abused in Art work. That gets me excited. I played with ELIZA more than 20 years
> ago (on green bar printout), and having an url based conversation with a computer is
> not too exciting, and bear in mind I was being told what to "say" so it wasn't really
> a conversation at all.
>
> > and i don't agree with you that the final url has something to do with gps.
> > not yet, because there are java applets only and no real gps connection -
> > no real global positioning system, nothing. only an empty structure. since
> > this is a beta version (0.9) i hope i'll be able to connect real gps till the end
> > oh march. if not i'll do it later - i'll keep the proces of creation open and
> > anyone can check at any time for further development.
> >
>
> well like I said:
>
> >
> > > was a bit disappointing,
> > > and seemingly pointless.
> >
>
> I was hoping to see a piece using gps. boo hoo, guess I gotta do it myself.
>
> > thank you so much for your respectful thoughts - it helps me a lot: for this
> > project and in general.
> >
> > wishing you all the best and good luck,
> > igor
>
> And thank you, I hope you were not offended by my choice of words. Back in art
> school we always said "bullshit" and "pointless" about each other's work, and its way
> easier than having to be so damn polite all the time.
>
> > what is the most important in enjoying any piece of art?
>
> what it _feels_ like to look at it (and with this medium, play with it).
>
> > did you ever have a chance to enjoy the piece of art that sexually
> > stimulated you? (just yes or no please)
>
> yes
>
> > how much joy and pleasure do you have in your life?
>
> alot, way more than most folks I reckon.
>
> > how often do you feel lonely?
>
> at least once a day
>
> > did you ever feel any kind of fear when you were enjoying a specific
> > piece of art or artistic experience?
>
> yes
>
> > would you please describe the relationship between "art" and "fear"?
>
> there is none.
>
> J
>
> + I don't think so.





To: Rhizome
Subject: Re: gps.art (referential reply)
Send reply to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:15:40 +0100

referential reply

- - -

Martin Wattenberg wrote:
Conor McGarrigle wrote:

- - -

hi martin & conor, hi gps.art explorers!

thanks for your many messages.

> Some sculptures should be made of fine wood, others work better
> with more brutal materials. The question about the gps.art site is,
> Why did the artist choose concrete rather than ebony for this
> particular sculpture?

i don't know if i can answer your question. a part of the correct answer
certainly is that "intima" prefers brutal concrete and hates fine ebony. in
any occasion and in any situation.

the next part of the answer is a quote of pablo picasso: "art is never
chaste, one should keep all innocent buffoons steered well away. people
who are not prepared well enough for art should never be allowed near it.
yes, art is dangerous. if it's chaste, it's not art."

the third part could be that "intima virtual base" is a low-tech solution to
high-tech art.

i'm thinking hard for some other parts of the answer, but i can't find them
now. or maybe i don't know them at all. unfortunately.

> To then be presented with a "guess what you need to do
> next" interface,

yes, in general i wanted to create very simple and basic "guess what you
need to do next" interface and i think this is the right way. i want to
show/test/explore other ways of www navigations. and i'm going to develop
it further.

> an insulting help link (eventually added)

yes, you are right. the "help" link was added yesterday. why did you have
to use it? - (it looks like you know the content of "help" pages). could you
please suggest me more polite way of saying it? i'll be happy to change
the text and i could really use your help. seriously.

> and a half dozen bullshit url's before I got to an url that had
> anything at all to do with gps,

i'm very happy that you had to fight with the project to get to the final url (i
often cry - why shouldn't you?). but i'm very sad that you see those url's
as bullshit. maybe it's because you are a soldier and you don't like to
communicate, to talk very much? or is it the opposite - you don't like to
talk with machines?

if you want some direct url's about gps, please use:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Science/Geography/Navigation/Global_Positioning_S
ystem__GPS_/
(gps.art certainly can't help you)

i believe that the beauty of intimate communication inspires the machines
to create digital and mechanical actions. the highest (+100%) beauty
of art and science is reached when the digital machine makes a physical
or mechanical gesture without the knowledge of a human being. an
answering machine is the best possible communication partner and
messages left on it are poetry. emotions are not the privilege of living
beings, nor of the art only. even supermarkets, cellular phones, satellite
technology, multinational corporations, medical equipment and stock
exchanges could be and are full of emotions. emotions are real, they have
a physical effect on our body: tears are the real material, chemical
substance that already exists in our body.

and i don't agree with you that the final url has something to do with gps.
not yet, because there are java applets only and no real gps connection -
no real global positioning system, nothing. only an empty structure. since
this is a beta version (0.9) i hope i'll be able to connect real gps till the end
oh march. if not i'll do it later - i'll keep the proces of creation open and
anyone can check at any time for further development.

> was a bit disappointing,
> and seemingly pointless.

it's just what you see. nothing else. there are no messages behind it, no
subtexts. because if i have something to say - i say it, i don't make
projects because of it. if i want to make a point - i make it, i don't create
projects for making a point.

a) being behind the computer one is always communicating with
herself/himself (not with gps or any other system), so she/he is
performing a kind of self-communication, masturbation based on the
artistic impulses that are coming out of the project. i call it the artistic
communication.

b) being faced with the computer is like going to the very deep process of
the most intensive self-communication. it is a kind of art that puts you as a
user/participant into the co-creators position: you have to be active to
survive in this kind of digital environment. on the other hand - being
inactive results in a very dangerous situation: you become impotent and
not able to control your co-ordinates inside the project and not able to let
your body to react (to activate your hormones and emotions).

c) being faced with a net.art project and it's dynamic and displaced
structure, the user is taking project's signals, transferring them to her/his
body and using them as an encouragement to explore her/his actions,
reactions, feelings, emotions - and even bones, meet, blood, sperm:
everything we have. that is why i call it self-communication.

i see emotions at the same level as physical irritations. it is the orgasm
that plays the key-role. because there is no collective catharsis anymore
if the user is individualised, so the individual orgasm could be understood
as the highest condition of the user being inside (or being faced with) the
net art project. and the orgasm is always individual - even in a group sex
act. a metaphor and spirituality are dead elements here. you can not
achieve orgasm with a metaphor. you have to do it in a hard way. indeed.

so, i agree with you: it's pointless. the complete "intima virtual base" is
pointless. don't be disappointed because of that.

even more: this is a very sad and lonely art.

thank you so much for your respectful thoughts - it helps me a lot: for this
project and in general.

wishing you all the best and good luck,
igor


p.s.: at the end i'd like to ask you a few questions:

what is the most important in enjoying any piece of art?
did you ever have a chance to enjoy the piece of art that sexually
stimulated you? (just yes or no please)
how much joy and pleasure do you have in your life?
how often do you feel lonely?
did you ever feel any kind of fear when you were enjoying a specific
piece of art or artistic experience?
would you please describe the relationship between "art" and "fear"?





Date sent: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:20:01 -0500
From: John Klima
To: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Copies to: list@rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: gps.art (referential reply)


Hi all,

intima wrote:

>
> > an insulting help link (eventually added)
>
> yes, you are right. the "help" link was added yesterday. why did you have
> to use it? - (it looks like you know the content of "help" pages). could you
> please suggest me more polite way of saying it? i'll be happy to change
> the text and i could really use your help. seriously.
>

I believe the help link asked me something to the effect "do I admit that I am
clueless" or soemthing like that, and then I had to click "yes I admit it" or "no I
don't admit it" A bit insulting don't you think? Perhaps "Are you sure you want to
give up that easily" would have challanged me to find the solution.


> > and a half dozen bullshit url's before I got to an url that had
> > anything at all to do with gps,
>
> i'm very happy that you had to fight with the project to get to the final url (i
> often cry - why shouldn't you?). but i'm very sad that you see those url's
> as bullshit. maybe it's because you are a soldier and you don't like to
> communicate, to talk very much? or is it the opposite - you don't like to
> talk with machines?

I just wanted to see a piece that used gps data, the preliminary conversation seemed
completely irrelevent to the piece. I'm not interested in gps as a technology, I'm
interested in seeing data generated from technology being used, reused, misused, and
abused in Art work. That gets me excited. I played with ELIZA more than 20 years
ago (on green bar printout), and having an url based conversation with a computer is
not too exciting, and bear in mind I was being told what to "say" so it wasn't really
a conversation at all.


> and i don't agree with you that the final url has something to do with gps.
> not yet, because there are java applets only and no real gps connection -
> no real global positioning system, nothing. only an empty structure. since
> this is a beta version (0.9) i hope i'll be able to connect real gps till the end
> oh march. if not i'll do it later - i'll keep the proces of creation open and
> anyone can check at any time for further development.
>

well like I said:

>
> > was a bit disappointing,
> > and seemingly pointless.
>

I was hoping to see a piece using gps. boo hoo, guess I gotta do it myself.


> thank you so much for your respectful thoughts - it helps me a lot: for this
> project and in general.
>
> wishing you all the best and good luck,
> igor

And thank you, I hope you were not offended by my choice of words. Back in art
school we always said "bullshit" and "pointless" about each other's work, and its way
easier than having to be so damn polite all the time.

> what is the most important in enjoying any piece of art?

what it _feels_ like to look at it (and with this medium, play with it).

> did you ever have a chance to enjoy the piece of art that sexually
> stimulated you? (just yes or no please)

yes

> how much joy and pleasure do you have in your life?

alot, way more than most folks I reckon.

> how often do you feel lonely?

at least once a day

> did you ever feel any kind of fear when you were enjoying a specific
> piece of art or artistic experience?

yes

> would you please describe the relationship between "art" and "fear"?

there is none.

J





To: kosick@sprint.ca
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: gps.art (referential reply)
Send reply to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:57:53 +0100

hi terrence,

> ....'one time, when intima was at computer camp'....
> terrence kosick
> artnatural will grow on you.

wasn't it in the idea of the doll, which lives solely from a person's
projection, and which despite its boundless submissiveness remains
exasperatingly withdrawn upon itself, that one might find what the
imagination seeks in desire and heightened transport?
(hans bellmer)

thans again,
igor





To: John Klima
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: gps.art (referential reply)
Send reply to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:58:11 +0100

hi john,

> A bit insulting don't you think?

a bit, yes.

> Perhaps "Are you sure you want to
> give up that easily" would have challanged me to find the solution.

thanks!

> I was hoping to see a piece using gps. boo hoo, guess I gotta do it myself.

great. just do it. as i said: i hope i'll be able to use gps in march, too.

and thanks for the answers,
igor





Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:39:46 +0000
From: Terrence J Kosick
Send reply to: kosick@sprint.ca
To: atom@intima.org
Subject: Re: gps

Terrence writes;

funny how much talk gps is getting. people rarely get involved as much
with testing web art at the alpha state on rhizome. it makes it a true
art/softwear project in that way. Also the navigation language once it is
learned by more people will be a real asset for further navigation along
this line. I am just learning programing and am just getting used to the
territory. I would benefit teaming up with a programmer for my future
site. It is the point i am taught in multimedia that it is always a team
effort. I like the initial mystery of the piece. I actually believed it
was stuck somehow. but it was me who was stuck the smart ass that i am!
The mouse clicking used to be a painful problem for me when i was editing
scanned images( before using a pen). typing navigation in the url is very
sensible for an oral culture we are creating. brilliant! I belive the
mouse is very primitive in sence of communication. it is like pointing at
objects (metaphores) instead of articulating through the old advancement
of phonetical communication. You jog my mind in the way i had hoped for
this medium.

terrence kosick
artnatural

intima wrote:

> hi terrence,
>
> yes, i understand. but thanks anyway - all the opinions and
> messages i'm getting are helping me a lot.
>
> and i'm changing (little and/or big) parts of the project frequently. i
> hope it will be finished next month.
>
> your presence on the list and contributions (i know them quite well)
> are very important. to me also. unfortunately i'm not subscribed to
> the _raw version, but to _digest only (but friends are forwarding me
> intima-related messages and i check rhizome website very often).
>
> best wishes,
> igor





From: "Conor McGarrigle"
To:
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: gps.art (referential reply)
Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:22:38 -0000

Hi Igor,

Just to say I've a new e-mail conor@stunned.org the old cmg@clubi.ie is no
longer.

It makes a change to actually discuss art on the list doesn't it?


Conor





Terrence J Kosick wrote:
>
> terrence writes;
>
> gps navigtion makes good sence in an oral culture
>
> funny how much talk gps is getting. people rarely get involved as much with
> testing web art at the alpha state on rhizome. It presents itself as a community
> art/softwear development model. Also the navigation language/vocabulary, once it
> is learned by more people it will be a real asset for further navigation along
> this line.
>
> I like the initial mystery of the piece. I actually believed it was stuck somehow.
> but it was me who was stuck! typing navigation in the url is very sensible for an
> oral culture we are creating.
>
> In a way the mouse is very primitive in sence of communication. it is like
> pointing at objects (metaphores) instead of articulating through the (very old)
> advancement of phonetical communication.
>
> GPS jogs my thick mind and keeps it trim.
>
> terrence kosick
> artnaturaly
>
> Mark Tribe wrote:
>
> > alex:
> >
> > this is an amazing thread. would be worth devoting an entire digest to it,
> > i think.
> >
> > -m
> >
> > At 09:49 AM 2/8/00 , John Klima wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >t o m v i n c e n t wrote:
> > >...
> > >
> > >> A whole lot of net.art pieces look like crap and navigate
> > >> like one-handled wheelbarrows, but if they do their job, if they 'work',
> > >> they will stay the course.
> > >
> > >I beg to differ: if they look like crap, they are crap. if they navigate like
> > >one-handed wheelbarrows (an excelent analogy btw) they will NOT stay the
> > >course.
> > >No one will have the patience (or strength to keep the analogy) to steer the
> > >one
> > >handled wheelbarrow. All great art, at least in my experience, sucks you
> > >in, even
> > >when the thing itself may be revolting. I have no desire to say what net art
> > >should be, or do, but from where I'm sitting, I don't want to be frustrated.
> > >Frustration springs forth from these machines enough as is, I don't want to be
> > >frustrated when I am looking for the best of what these machines can offer.
> > >
> > >
> > >> If the people on this list are going to start laying down laws about what is
> > >> and isn't net.art, especially if they're based on something as net-sickly as
> > >> 'clickability', then it really is time to go somewhere else.
> > >
> > >I reiterate, it was never my intention to lay down laws about what is or
> > >isn't net
> > >art. Are we not all sophisticated enough to understand that this is all about
> > >opinion? What I questioned is the relevence of the enigmatic navigation
> > >system I
> > >was presented with, in reference to a piece about gps data. I am all for
> > >enigmatic navigation, when that is the point of the piece.
> > >
> > >J





To: Rhizome
Subject: [gps.art reference]
Send reply to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:46:15 +0100

[gps.art reference]

| intimate experience |

.report

- - -

i would like to thank all for you for your help you are offering to me.

this is the first time i decided to create a piece in public, to do it online, so
that the audience can actually see the creation of the project from the
very beginning (from point zero). until now i always finished the project
first and published the completed version.

this time i wanted a kind of a virtual s/m experience: not to be protected;
to stand naked in front of the visitors and to let them hurt me. but: to fight!
it's a wonderful, extraordinary, but painful and frustrating intimate
experience. so i'm making a full of myself now, when i let the people
comment my creation process and when i comment their messages, but
that was my intention from the beginning and i deserve all the bad (and
good) things connected to that.

since i'm not subscribed to _raw, but to the _digest version of rhizome
only, i get gps-related messages forwarded by my friends, so i get them
anyway.

Conor wrote:
> It makes a change to actually discuss art on the list doesn't it?

i'm more than happy about it, conor, but i'm even happier that it came out
what a hard work it is to discuss it. i'm also happy because i don't have
many opportunities to discuss it in my local offline environment .

but maybe we should end this public debate because there are many
people on the list and not all of them are interested in it. who knows. we
could talk/reply directly to the poeple who are interested (to avoid the
number of messages subscribers have to dowload from the list).

- - -

t o m v i n c e n t wrote:
> A whole lot of net.art pieces look like crap

i couldn't agree more. check
http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gsmart
(global system for mobile telecommunications art)

> and navigate
> like one-handled wheelbarrows but if they do their job,
> if they 'work', they will stay the course.

navigation is the the way we express our opinion. it is our choice how we
are going to make navigation system working in a particular piece. it's an
expression, a statement, the most relevant part of the net art project. it's a
question of the concept (both: mouse and keyboard system or even
others).

internet is the most primitive medium ever (you only have texts, images
and animations). that's why we are allowed to take this little space in a
creation of a project: to decide about navigation. to make a statement. and
we have a right not to be polite with creating (and using!) navigation.

no net art piece navigate like one-handled wheelbarrow in a bad sense of
this expression. each navigation system is legitimate and legal. only the
user could be not legal and not legitimate. in which case the user is not
legal and not legitimate? in one only: if he/she refuses to
fight/communicate with the project. the artistic communication
(communicating with an art project) is a matter of elite. who/what are/is
elite? a member of the elite is the potential user who is willing and ready to
accept the parameters and the concept of a particular net art project that
are offered by its creator. who is willing to participate in the project by
accepting the rules (every rule, not only navigation) made by its creator.
so the user can't hide in a mass behind the other people. he/she has to be
active. if he/she is not active, he/she is not legitimate.

i understand that i broke the rule of the navigation. no mouse anymore,
only the keyboard. first: i was not the first one. second: i was in a big
dilemma, how to make the project open and accessible for those who can
not figure out the navigation system and how to keep this system. that's
why i added help section. the first help content was insulting, because i
was angry on those visitors who couldn't find the entrance. the next day
the anger has gone and with a help of rhizome list community the text was
changed.

SINGLE, structurally equal to ALL and endless in the microstructure is
showing the totality and breakness of NAVIGATION in her mirror image.
ONE, split into TWO is compatible with the life of NAVIGATION. the magic
structure of ONE and the obsession with the individuality inspires the ritual
beauty of polarity which is shown on the altar of art. the NAVIGATION is
presented by a mathematical microstructure. the circle is drawn and in
the circle there is a whole world. there is a world of the COSMOS and a
world of the ATOM, but the NAVIGATION is the zone of their co-existence.

> but if they do their job,
> if they 'work', they will stay the course.

what is the "job" of any net art project? what does it mean if one project
"works"? well, if i want something to work, i go to a store and buy it: let's
say a clock. if it works it shows time. so i don't see any reason why the
net art project should (and the way it could) "work". i'm sorry for my ugly
english, but does it mean "to produce something"?

"wasn't it in the idea of the doll, which lives solely from a person's
projection, and which despite its boundless submissiveness remains
exasperatingly withdrawn upon itself, that one might find what the
imagination seeks in desire and heightened transport?" (hans bellmer)

> I beg to differ: if they look like crap, they are crap

what is art? (and) what is not art?

net art being primarily the design of web pages ("how do the look") is
loosing in importance. so, i strongly believe that net art as a web design
doesn't exist - and i don't see and recognize it as net art and even not as
art at all. because design has a task to make things look(!) beautiful but
art in general has nothing to do with beauty (softness, friendlines,
easiness, tourism) of course.

> No one will have the patience (or strength to keep the analogy)
> to steer the one handled wheelbarrow.

i will. am i no one? i've heard for at least ten more people. are the no one?
how many people we need to create a relevant group? and i believe i can
even help the others: "surrender yourselves to the ascetic, renounce all
wordly things, and by doing so you derive a certain concentration, but
you might also dry up. abandon yourselves into the arms of passion, and
you could easily become burned. art, love and passion are very closely
related. because they all hinge more or less on realization of beauty in
some form or other, or in its pleasure-taking. and the intoxication is
exquisite - it is not true, my love?" (max beckmann)

our brains are capable to make fantastic combinations and so is the net.
because if we are talking about net art we are in fact talking about
unlimited options of views and perspectives that can make one action
(with the combination of others) meaning whatever we (the artist and the
user together) want.

as the internet as a medium will develop it will become completely
connected and compatible with other machines we have, like washing
machines, toasters, refrigerators, cars etc. if today some are already
talking about interaction as one of the principle of net art, they have to
know that they are wrong because what we have now is just the
unimportant surface of something what we would like to be an interaction,
but it's not. why? because the real interaction is still coming. it will bring us
the complex interrelation of all the machines into our live and into our
body. nano-robots will settle our flesh and each individual will become
something like a computer-server walking around and communicating,
interacting and interrelating with everything in a close and long distance.
internet as such will disappear or will transform into very
personal/intimate/micro and very global/macro total medium at the same
time. it has to become a physical and material part of our real body if it
wants to survive in any way.

> I don't want to be frustrated. Frustration springs forth from
> these machines enough as is, I don't want to be frustrated
> when I am looking for the best of what these machines
> can offer.

unfortunately there is no way to change it - if we are talking about art - it's
all about frustrations, traumas, pain and conditions like these. it would be
nice to be otherwise, but it's not. i often cry (as i already told you) so i
want to show to the others that they can cry too. this is how i encourage
their self-communication within my net art projects.

those who doesn't want to be frustrated should watch mtv and should only
use friendly urls like www.friends.com, www.love.com,
www.understanding.com and www.happiness.com. free your mind and the
rest will follow.

> If the people on this list are going to start laying down laws
> about what is and isn't net.art, especially if they're based
> on something as net-sickly as 'clickability', then it really is
> time to go somewhere else.

could you please enlighten me and explain to me what kind of laws about
net art exists on this list? where/what is the bottom line? how far can i go?
how far can you go? how far can we all go? i would be very grateful to
you and i would know how to behave in the future.

- - -

and again: while asking for love and intelligence i wish you all the best and
would like to thank all for you for your (intentional or not) great help you
are offering to me.

igor





To: Rhizome
Subject: contribute/create
Send reply to: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:51:27 +0100

gps.art
contribute your gps.art.part
- - -
global net positioning / create your own gps.art.part

option a)
create your own file(s) and put them on your server. submit url and it will
be added to the "run_gps_art" section of the "gps.art" project.

option b)
if your file(s) are not bigger than 0.5mb you can zip them and send it as
an attached file to:
atom@intima.org
no attachments without permission (ask for permission before sending
files). file(s) will be added to the "run_gps_art" section of the "gps.art"
project.

files can containes internal and external links, e-mail addresses and any
data whatsoever, but the content must be gps-related (it's up to the co-
creators what does "gps-related" mean).

- - -

microbe.3/gps.art
http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gps
[global positioning system art]
beta version 0.9
work in progress

- - -

"intima" will leave addes file(s) on other servers under the protection of
different co-creators who will participate in this project. "intima" will make
no contracts with those co-creators and they will be allowed to remove or
change their files any time. those files will remain their property. this is
how "intima" is going to make sure that the project will stay alive and
active.

- - -

"all symbolic acts have something voluptuous. but people refuse to admit
it." (louise bourgeois)

- - -

GPS - Global Positioning System
DOD - Department of Defense, USA
LORAN - LOng RAnge Navigation
SPS - Standard Positioning Service
PPS - Precise Positioning Service
C/A - Coarse/Acquisition
TOA - Time of Arrival
DOP - Dilution of Precision
GDOP - Geodetic DOP
S/A - Selective Availability
A-S - Anti Spoofing





Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:33:15 -0500
To: igor.stromajer@guest.arnes.si
From: laporta@interport.net (Tina LaPorta)
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: contribute/create

hi...
i really haven't been following the thread. can you tell me what kind of
works/sites are you intested in?
tina








Date sent: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:18:28 -0500 (EST)
From: digest@rhizome.org (RHIZOME)
Subject: RHIZOME DIGEST: 2.11.00
Send reply to: digest@rhizome.org

RHIZOME DIGEST: February 11, 2000

Content:

+thread+
7. Orange Robot, Martin Wattenberg, Conor McGarrigle, tom vincent and corey.eiseman: Should links be blue?

7.

Date: 2.6.00

From: Orange Robot (orangerobot@HOTMAIL.COM), Martin Wattenberg (mwattenberg@SMARTMONEY.COM), Conor McGarrigle (conor@stunned.org), tom vincent (tomv@CRISSCROSS.COM) and corey.eiseman (toe-gristle@usa.net)

Subject: Should links be blue?

[An interesting thread ran this week on the Raw email list. At issue was the counter-intuitive website structure used by Igor Stromajer in his project "gps.art" (kid.kibla.org/~intima/gps). The project begins with a series of pages, yet it is not immediately clear to the user how to get from one to the next. We pick up as the thread begins to tackle the difficult topic of net.art design...]

Orange Robot (orangerobot@HOTMAIL.COM) wrote:

net.art, in my view at least, has interactivity as one of its main components. Interactive art was of course around before net.art but human computer interaction is dramatically different than real world physical interactions. Human computer interaction is a field of study, some may say a science, that has been around for perhaps 20 some years. Some of its main theories are based around consistency and intuitiveness.

net.art should neither be expected to follow the laws of HCI to the letter nor topple them to the ground. It should be informed by what can be learned from it and attempt to enlighten standard more traditional modes of interaction by embedding them with meaning and by subverting their expected and accepted values.

Unfortunately, exploration, play and surprise can be rather hard to evoke on a computer. Far fewer have the skills to evoke a meaningful sense of interaction from an engagement with a computer than with a painting, a film or a piece of interactive sculpture. Clicking meaningless, cutting and pasting, closing zillions of windows, having your browser crash and other activities are generally frustrating or annoying. I'm not quite sure why this is. Obviously nobody wants to have their computer crash while viewing a piece of net.art, it would be akin to getting booted out of the museum halfway through the exhibit and being forced to by a new ticket. Other minor mouse actions simply have no inherent pleasing value in and of themselves. They aren't physical or visceral enough. Interaction must other provoke the senses or the mind. Meaningless cutting and pasting only provokes tedium and annoyance.

Martin Wattenberg (mwattenberg@SMARTMONEY.COM) wrote:

A web page with responsive and easy navigation feels luxurious. It's the net equivalent of gold or ebony.

A web page whose navigation makes you work--e.g. editing text URLs-- feels painful. It's the net equivalent of concrete or barbed wire.

Some sculptures should be made of fine wood, others work better with more brutal materials. The question about the gps.art site is, Why did the artist choose concrete rather than ebony for this particular sculpture?

Conor McGarrigle (conor@stunned.org) replied:

Thats an excellent analogy. The more I work in net.art the more it becomes apparent that the navigation structure defines a piece in the way that the choice of material defines a sculpture. Make the wrong choice and you can wreck a good idea.

tom vincent (tomv@CRISSCROSS.COM) wrote:

Maybe the question is how important is aesthetics - "looks" - to net.art? I think the answer is it's not important at all. It can be important but it's not a necessity. (remember those photoshop filters). Net.art has been "rough" from the beginning. As web design advances and gets more sophisticated, more and more the rough guerrilla approach can be useful for an artist, especially as us designers have a lot of money and skill-resources to play with which are often way out of the reach of an individual artist. Those artists who do have access to the high-end resources will (hopefully) use them in ways designers won't, and surprise us all (although I guess that's partly what hell.com were(are) trying to do - to a mixed reaction if I remember rightly, eh guys.) All you need to make work on the web, though, is a text editor and some kind of ftp software, just like at the beginning.

corey.eiseman (toe-gristle@usa.net) adds:

Perhaps the question is how aesthetics and functionality relate to each other, how they work together and/or how they oppose each other. Putting aside net.art for a moment, consider how in many traditional art circles, "functional art" is very often segregated into a seperate category, and some people actually consider it as one level below "real" art, perhaps *because* of its functionality. A painting or a sculpture has aesthetic qualities but is functionally useless, for all intents and purposes that's what makes it art. On the other hand, a ceramic cup or a chair as an art object can have aesthetic qualities as well functional qualities. It has always been interesting to me that the label "functional art" implies that these objects exist as art *despite* their functional qualities.

In this sense, it is interesting to see what happens when this relationship is applied to net.art. Is the relationship different than in traditional art? One could say that functional net.art is simply web design, and that has nothing to do with art, but I tend to think that's an oversimplification. Functionality on the net deals in part with accessibility of the work, intuitiveness of navigation and ease of use. As has been said, these are all things an artist can manipulate and confront the user with, even if the goal is to be non-functional, anti- functional, or in some other way experimentally functional. Knowledge of interface design might help a net artist with these goals, if only because one is usually more successful breaking rules if they are first familiar with those rules to begin with.

I found the experimental navigation in the gps work interesting because, once i figured out what it was i was supposed to do and started doing it, I was involved in a way that seemed more gripping and engaging than if I was just doing the standard mouse clicks. I had exerted a certain amount of energy so that I was less likely to give up half way through, because I became determined to see what the whole point was. Once I got to the work itself, i was a little disappointed, and still think the navigation is more interesting than the gps art. I think there *could be* a connection between the navigation and the work, as in url == gps, but I didn't feel that connection was explored in any kind of interesting way. As a result the navigation seemed more like a gimmicky front door and the payoff was disappointing because of it. If the piece is going to be developed further, i might suggest exploring that url / gps relationship and making it more central to the work itself.

It seems to me that functionality and aesthetics have a more important relationship in net.art than in most other art forms, and that the two are more interrelated and co-dependant on each other because of the very nature of the medium.

http://kid.kibla.org/~intima/gps

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Rhizome Digest is edited by Alex Galloway (alex@rhizome.org). ISSN: 1525-9110. Volume 5, number 6. Article submissions to digest@rhizome.org are strongly encouraged. Submissions should relate to the theme of new media art and be less than 1500 words long. For further details please contact the editor. For information on advertising in Rhizome Digest, please contact marisa@rhizome.org.

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